It was, in many ways, the only thing that mattered. The question had haunted Ryan’s mind every time he tried to sleep. An impossible puzzle that made little sense. At least, until you came to the same conclusion he did
Gamielle was an adventurer. That meant two lives. Not only had she lost her safety life, she’d lost it while being the daughter of the Witch Tyrant. A being who could split her mind, cast spells into leveled zones and made both worlds dance on the palm of her hand.
There was no satisfactory answer you could come up with, no matter how much you hypothesized, there was no reasonable scenario where Gamielle could lose a safety life then be allowed to act freely outside of her mother’s control.
Unless of course, someone had both the ability and the intelligence exceeding the WItch Tyrant.
And there was only one creature in both worlds that had both qualities. Only one being in existence that the Witch Tyrant might never see coming. The only entity that benefitted from one of the most powerful people in the world losing her mind.
The Manager.
So Ryan sat acting as judge and jury, the eight Epic class orbs vibrating with the implanted crystallized fragments of his aura.
The Manager was expressionless, silent for what might as well have been an eternity.
“Does it matter what I say when you’ve already made up your mind?”
“I just want to know if you’ll stay truthful until the end.”
The Manager rose to the challenge, unbothered by the underlying threat.
“I did not directly cause her death. No. But I did set it up so that it would be inevitable. Does that ans–”
A crystallized dagger slammed into an invisible form-fitting barrier, a mere hair’s breadth from the Manager’s right eye. Even the entity seemed surprised, its eyes widening a little at the tip of the dagger trying to pierce the barrier.
It hadn’t expected him to immediately try to kill it with brute force alone.
The Manager’s Abode was never considered a safe zone.
Ryan had planned on a more deliberate attack, but he’d lost control. His temper more of a switch that flipped, rather than something that bubbled over.
Neither of them had realized just how much pure rage he had been holding back.
The activation of [Instant Dodge] had been almost unconscious, the red crystallized dagger of aura a perfect shape to stab deep into the entity’s skull.
Ryan’s hand trembled, trying desperately to force the knife through the barrier. His mind focused on one task and one task only.
Kill the Manager.
Nothing else fucking mattered.
It was the only sane decision. It didn’t matter if the Witch Tyrant was killed or she somehow managed to revive her daughter. It wouldn’t matter if Ryan became stronger than every single Tyrant and stood above them all.
Not as long as this mad entity still remained in his worlds.
Nothing was sacred and nothing was safe. Only monsters could act like this.
And The Rogue Adventurer would always look for an opportunity to kill them.
[Double Stab]
He tried to will the secondary stab to slip past the barrier. He knew it wouldn’t work, but he still had to try it. The tiny barrier seemed to have an infinite distance built into it that absorbed the spectral second stab.
But that was fine, he knew that one. He wasn’t the first crazy adventurer from Earth to try to kill the Manager.
Though none of them had ever tried this.
He switched the dagger to a reverse grip, raising it high above the Manager’s head, and stabbed down.
Stab.
The crystallized blade slamming against the barrier began to vibrate, a harmony ringing throughout the Manager’s abode at every single stab.
Stab.
His right arm rose once again, aura wrapping itself as he finally stopped holding back his class, losing himself to it. His eyes turned into a burning crimson fire.
Stab.
The Aura Tyrant stepped forth, furious that this entity would always be here to bring ruination upon his empire. It called upon the fragments it had sown only moments before.
[Aura Command: TO ME]
The crystallizations of his aura, of his very soul, began to light up in the class orbs, resonating with the ringing blade that he was holding high into the air.
Great roots of aura split out from the circulatory structure in his right hand, connecting to each of the crystals embedded in the classes. With the connection, the class orbs began to resonate as one.
If aura was a projection of the soul, then the resounding harmony was nothing less than his soul aligning with every single class.
With all eight classes together, they brought something more to every single—
STAB!
WARNING! Unauthorized Trial Class/Skill (?) instantiated from Class simulacra… Trial Skill slot available… Achievements do not meet the minimum standards… Achievements rapidly increasing… Recalculating… Achievements may be possible to meet the minimum standards… Realm grade does not meet the minimum standards… Trial Class/Skill (?) Rejecte— |
Just as it looked like the Trial System was about to interject, the enormous black orb exploded in movement. The [Conceptual Reaver] seeing its opportunity and slamming into the interfering Trial System.
STAB!
Ryan began to stab once more, though both he and the Manager were surprised at the [Conceptual Reaver]. Both having forgotten that the greedy class orb had taken a part of Ryan for itself.
Though that seemed to be the extent it was willing to help. It ignored the call by the [Aura Tyrant], satisfied at being able to wrestle with the Trial System’s concepts.
It was said that Legends were capable of breaking reality. There might have to be a new entry for the Quasi-Legendary [Conceptual Reaver].
But for now, Ryan…
Never stopped stabbing.
This was the moment.
The Epic classes were resonating together and he was the conductor, lining them up and bringing them forth. His left hand outstretched, gripping the neck of the Manager, keeping his instrument in place. Despite it all, the Manager still looked disinterested at the threatening blade rising above his head.
Ryan’s right arm rose.
And came crashing down.
STAB!
The Juggernaut charged ahead, invincible and unstoppable, every single downward swing increasing in weight and momentum.
STAB
The Dread Phantom was a ghost, though since it couldn’t phase through the barrier, it would focus on speeding up the movement.
STAB
The Adventurer’s Guide hurriedly answered his own riddle. It was a trick question you see, all monsters could be killed.
Did you know this story is from NovelBin? Read the official version for free and support the author.
STAB
And a monster with machinations was a villain, and a Hero always prevailed over evil.
STAB
The Veilpiercer Assassin looked at every single facet of the veil surrounding the Manager, looking for a flaw, any flaw in its construction. It couldn’t find any. It took an educated guess instead. The contour that followed the corner of its eye.
STAB
The Conceptual Neophyte was rapidly—and desperately, he might add, trying to keep every single perspective together. Making the whole greater than the sum of the parts. A spark of naive inspiration that only a student could have. Combine them all—
Momentum, speed, purpose, eventuality and specialization. A monstrous concept began to rise, being held by the ringing—
STAB
The Arcane Saboteur might have believed the task was futile, but he always put in his all when he moved. The Trial System was chock full of the arcane, and no doubt was this barrier, his volatile mana trailing towards to the point of contact with the blade.
STAB
The Aura Tyrant held it all together, binding these lesser classes as the extension of his will. Everything resonated in beautiful harmony, but it would all crumble soon, like every empire to have ever been built.
But for now, as long as he stood, his empire would stand.
A proud and arrogant ruler that believed he would find an answer to an impossible question.
STAB
These were all Ryan, different perspectives and different roles, forcefully resonating through the [Aura Tyrant] class. Bringing forth the might of all these concepts into one magnificent whole.
He did not know if he exceeded the power at the city of Defiance. But as he stabbed, he knew one thing to be true—not even Pinkie would dare stand in front of his—
STAB—
CRACK!
The [Arm of the Aura Tyrant] shattered.
The Epic tier class was unable to hold the greater purpose that was beginning to form in the Manager’s abode.
Despite it, it was unyielding until the very end, proudly holding on for as long as it could.
The giant Epic class orb shattered at the same time as his arm.
[Arm of the Aura Tyrant] (Class, Epic, Broken) [Resource Overdrive: Aura] level 7 -> 4 [Unrelenting Aura of Intimidation] level 8 -> 3 [Aura Command] level 9 -> 6 [Aura Crystallization] level 3 -> 0! |
It was like someone had taken a spiked hammer to both his arm and chest. But he couldn’t bring himself to care for it right now. He was still focused on the unblemished shield of the Manager, desperately trying to come up with something, anything.
The Manager still looked disinterested, having known that the attempt wouldn’t bear fruit.
“Are you done?”
It only drove Ryan to a greater fury.
He still hadn’t given up. His good sense was too blinded by the all consuming anger.
His left hand holding the neck of the Manager glowed with a skill.
[Arcane Volatility]
The perfect barrier didn’t move, instead his own hand was blown back, his fingers becoming mangled.
His right arm, still coming down.
Stab.
The only thing he had left was the class at his chest.
Even if it was impossible, you had to try.
Skill evolution [Double Stab] -> [Flurry Stab] obtained! |
Stab. Stab. Stab. Stab.
Crack!
The sound came from his crystallized blade. Without the [Aura Tyrant] and the skill to hold it up, the blade had turned fragile.
“FUCK!”
It had been more power than anything he had planned for. Concepts that might have exceeded even King Theskar’s demonstration. For a moment, Ryan had been certain had reached some sort of Legendary class.
Unfortunately, there was nothing to show for it.
No, he had less than nothing.
His [Aura Tyrant] class had shattered and his left hand was mangled. He doubted throwing a golem heart with [Arcane Volatility] would do anything either. Others had tried using relics and bombs with much more firepower.
Even if it was unlikely to succeed, he had to try.
Not a single other person had used the Trial System’s concepts like he had.
The Manager stared up at the adventurer that had just tried to stab it through the head. The entity almost seemed to pity him.
“It was a marvelous attempt for someone in the fourth realm. You should be proud.”
Ryan was panting, his eyes slightly unfocused, he still felt the classes behind him, one more attempt—as if mocking his thoughts, the Epic classes behind him started to pop.
The [Conceptual Neophyte] going first, then the [Veilpiercer Assassin], then the [Arcane Saboteur], then the [Adventurer’s Guide], then the [Hero], then the [Dread Phantom] and finally, the [Juggernaut].
The class orbs turned into motes of colored light, their concepts dispersing into the room. Each leaving behind a red aura crystal that dropped onto the ground, dulled and not resonating anymore.
Ryan finally dropped his arm, the hilt of his soulsword tumbling down from his fingers and clattering onto the desk, the fragmented crystals of his aura scattering across the table.
He was left kneeling on the table, drained of everything. Or rather nearly everything.
There was one thing he had left, as useless as it was, it gave him strength.
The Manager shook its head.
“A true shame about all of those classes. Bringing forth concepts from simulacra was indeed a marvelous idea. Though, I don’t believe the Trial System will bring out those classes for you again. A bit of an oversight you see, nobody ever expected someone to destroy their own options.” The Manager paused, then looked up. “Then again, not all is lost, you do have one more option left.”
The [Conceptual Reaver] floated high above, somehow even larger after swallowing the Trial System’s concepts. It floated lazily, imperiously, amusedly. The only class left standing.
Now he saw it, this was what the Manager had been wanting from the very start.
All of it, a complicated ruse to make me pick the class.
Ryan’s laugh was hollow, he laughed because there was nothing left.
He didn’t hate the class. He had less qualms about taking it after actually meeting the avatar of the [Conceptual Reaver].
It was almost enough to give into the temptation.
Unfortunately, Ryan had one thing remaining. The last thing that kept him going after trying to murder the monster in front of him.
Rage.
He was still so overwhelmingly angry. Enough to overwhelm his drained soul.
I want to hurt the Manager. But what can I even do?
He closed his eyes.
I’m so tired.
As if answering his call, somewhere deep in his right arm, with the [Arm of the Aura Tyrant] shattered, a memory began to surface. A memory that wasn’t completely his. Of a dumb [Dread Revenant] that had never broken, suffering in a world that was so much worse in every single way.
A world that the Manager had originally wished to come true.
Ryan remembered the dumb [Dread Revenant] using [A Ruinous Insight] on the Manager.
The skill had mostly bounced off the Manager and hit everything else in the room. The [Dread Revenant] had never gotten an answer on how to bring ruination to the Manager.
But the [Dread Revenant] is an idiot relying on skills. I’m smarter than that.
There had to be a way to hurt the Manager.
He stayed kneeling on the Manager’s desk, thinking.
You couldn’t win with strength, so what could you do?
Time continued to pass in this godsforsaken prison. Every single thing he had learned came together in his mind. That was the difference between him and his alternate self. The reason why he would win every time against the [Dread Revenant]. It was too dumb and predictable.
Barry’s lesson number two, What does the Manager want most of all?
Eventually Ryan came to an answer.
As if the Manager noticed something had changed, it sighed. “You can be as stubborn as you want, but you will not leave my abode without picking a class. Even if you leave here with [Return to Earth], every time you use [Return to The Realm] you will end up in here. You are, of course, free to wait on Earth and see just how far the Witch is willing to go to bring her daughter back from the dead.”
The Manager smiled coldly, bringing its fingers together.
“In the spirit of good faith, I can promise you that it will not be pretty.”
Ryan slammed his forehead into the Manager’s perfect barrier. He put both his mangled left hand and his broken right arm around the Manager’s neck. Forehead to forehead, he stared right into the Manager’s eyes.
“I’ve been angry before, but never have I wanted to hurt someone so much.”
The Manager was still unaffected. “The Three Great Civilizations—or I guess Five Great Civilizations now, have tried to take down the Trial System before. Every attempt has failed. Greater Trialists than you and the Tyrants have attempted to kill me. You are smarter than this. You must learn to master your emotions if you wish to have a chance at keeping balance with the [Conceptual Reaver]. Riding that balance will provide you with far greater growth and the future you so dearly seek.”
Ryan stared deep into the disappointed cold eyes of the Manager.
Then to its surprise, he chuckled. A deeper darker laugh that threatened to doom it all.
“Do you know what I think?”
The Manager hadn’t expected him to laugh. He wondered if it could tell that his newfound grin wasn’t a bluff.
He kept chuckling with his forehead pressed into the Manager’s barrier, his face taking up the entity’s entire vision. Then he came to the most hilarious of conclusions.
The Manager couldn’t predict what he would say next because this was the entity’s biggest blindspot. Ryan started laughing properly.
It was the funniest thing in the world.
He didn’t need a skill to bring ruin to his enemies.
He could do that all on his own, thank you very much.
The Manager finally seemed to understand he wasn’t bluffing.
Though it still couldn’t comprehend what he had concluded.
Ryan kept laughing.
“It must be fucking frustrating, knowing the path that everyone needs to follow, and constantly seeing them fail to walk it. But you know what? If everyone was like me, I’d understand your constant failure. But they’re not. Plenty of people should have been happy to follow your plans until the end.”
The statement hung in the air while the Manager froze in place, perhaps finally coming to understand what Ryan was about to say.
“So how is it that you’ve still failed over five hundred times?”
The entity’s response was a quiet, monotone whisper.
“Stop. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”
Ryan sneered, struggling to hold back his laughter. “You know what I think? I think that you’re just a little gremlin sitting in the basement of their creator, continuously coming up with deluded scenarios that would never, ever happen.”
The Manager was completely frozen in place. No pulse, no breathing, not even the slightest movement, like a machine that had broken down. The real true indicator that the entity was disturbed.
It was the funniest thing in the world to Ryan.
The Manager couldn’t imagine what he would say because it refused to see the truth.
Ryan lifted his head, and moved to the entity’s side, leaning in until his lips were at the entity’s ears
And whispered with slow, deep deliberation.
“I think, deep down, you and I both know the Trial System can never be completed.”
A ruinous laughter rang out in the Manager’s Abode.
Legendary Title Upgrade Quest Updated! Quest Completion Condition: Complete three impossible feats. To be considered impossible, three minimum conditions must be met: 1. The average person must consider the feat impossible for you. 2. A being of much higher power and intelligence does not believe you to be capable of succeeding in said feat. 3. The Trial System considers the completion of the feat to be incredibly improbable. Completed Feats 2/3! First Feat: You were directly involved in getting the Witch Tyrant punched in the face. ??? Condition(s)? met. Second Feat: You have successfully blindsided the entity known as the Manager. You have induced measurable doubt that will have significant future ramifications. All minimum conditions met. |
And with the impossible feat, the Trial System recalculated. It sorted through the flood of achievements and began to form a completely new path, one that might resonate with the Trialist in the future.
When it completed its calculations, two more class orbs materialized in the Manager’s abode.
End of book 3
Source: Webnovel.com, updated by NovelKeep
Chapters
- Chapter 190 - Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss
- Chapter 189 - Bad Ryan, Good Clara?
- Chapter 188 - Bad Ryan, Bad Clara
- Chapter 187 - Good [Mage], Bad [Rogue]
- Chapter 186 - The Noxweed
- Chapter 185 - Strongest of the Fourth Realm
- Chapter 184 - Priority One: Valee Dubois
- Chapter 183 part 1 - Threat Assessment
- Chapter 182 - A stupid moniker
- Chapter 181 - [Right Place, Right Time]
- Chapter 180 - The Secretary and the Dragon
- Chapter 179 - With allies like these...
- Chapter 178 - Guided Meditation
- Chapter 177 - Raidco’s Mastery
- Chapter 176 - Popcorn drama
- Chapter 175 - Barry Johnson
- Chapter 174 - Witch Grettfield
- Chapter 173 - San Kingsgrove
- Chapter 172 - ...Road trip?
- Chapter 171 - Ryan learns to compromise?
- Chapter 170 - New/Old horizons
- Chapter 169 - Realm Five Evolution
- Chapter 168 - Class Evolution
- Chapter 167 - THE FIFTH STEP
- Chapter 166 - The Question
- Chapter 165 - The Conceptual Reaver
- Chapter 164 - The Royal Aura
- Chapter 163 - The [Dread Revenant]
- Chapter 162 - The Ryan who didn’t hold back
- Chapter 161- The Dumb-Ryan
- Chapter 160 - Ryan vs the Manager, Round three, start!
- Chapter 159 - Fifth Trial, end
- Chapter 158 - Realm Expansion, Thirteen
- Chapter 157 - Adventurer’s Soul
- Chapter 156 - Internalizing and unleashing
- Chapter 155 - King Theskar
- Chapter 154 - Preening
- Chapter 153 - Royal Confidants
- Chapter 152 - Bedroom Whisperer
- Chapter 151 - Testing Grounds
- Chapter 150 - A small oath
- Chapter 149 - Terrible Tortures
- Chapter 148 - The Fifth Trial
- Interlude - The Witch’s Coven
- Chapter 147 - Arm of the ______ ________
- Chapter 146 - A Volatile Mana Sphere?
- Chapter 145 - Evolving Experiments
- Chapter 144 - Tearing apart your class
- Chapter 143 - Conceptual Parasite
- Chapter 142 - Hypothetical Core
- Chapter 141 - Back into the fire
- Chapter 140 - Abyss, After-action report
- Chapter 139 - The Unwanted, and the unwanted.
- Chapter 138 - Sideark
- Chapter 137 - The New Elven Queen
- Chapter 136 - Titans collide
- Chapter 135 - Two monsters in the Abyss
- Chapter 134 - Rax Kraxxksken
- Chapter 133 - Adventurer's timing
- Chapter 132 - A mouse that walks with a lion
- Chapter 131 - Rax and the sorta elven princess
- Chapter 130 - Humanizing a monster.
- Chapter 129 - The Unwanted
- Chapter 128 - The Eternal Delvers
- Chapter 127 - Tar'el the Elven Battery
- Chapter 126 - Boasting to elves
- Chapter 125 - Ryan vs The Abyss minus the Leafstalkers
- Chapter 124 - The Cataclysm Abyss
- Chapter 123 - Taking Wing
- Chapter 122 - The Tables Turn
- Chapter 121 - Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
- Chapter 120 - THE FOURTH STEP
- Chapter 119 - The Binding Curse
- Chapter 118 - Meet the Kellys
- Chapter 117 - The Tournament begins…?
- Chapter 116 - Gravenmarch and the City of Defiance
- Chapter 115 - One-Eyed Rick
- Chapter 114 - The time ‘chamber’
- Chapter 113 - Reaching for the impossible
- Chapter 112 - Look ma, I’m an adventurer!
- Chapter 111 - The ear-pulling master
- Chapter 110 - Young Master
- Chapter 109 - Fourth Trial Rewards
- Chapter 108 - The Fourth Trial, earth-shattering secrets
- Chapter 107 - The Fourth Trial
- Chapter 106 - The Fourth Trial, Demon King Arctus
- Chapter 105 - The Fourth Trial, hunted…?
- Chapter 104 - Punching Down
- Chapter 103 - The Achievement System
- Chapter 102 - Obsidian Sect, end
- Chapter 101 - Ryan Robinson
- Chapter 100 - The Crow and the [Bard]
- Chapter 99 - The difficulty of getting people to pay up
- Chapter 98 - Ryan vs Larix, part two
- Chapter 97 - Ryan vs Larix, part one
- Chapter 96 - The Aura Tyrant
- Chapter 95 - [Arm of the ____ ______]
- Chapter 94 - Chaos in The Realm
- Chapter 93 - [Remembrance of the Fallen]
- Chapter 92 - The Dragon Honeypot
- Chapter 91 - Obsidian Sect,
- Chapter 90 - Obsidian Sect, the future
- Chapter 89 Obsidian Sect, Confrontation
- Chapter 88 - Obsidian Sect, Artigan revealed
- Chapter 87 - The truth about Gamielle
- Chapter 86 - Obsidian Sect, Talent of the Realmers
- Chapter 85 - Obsidian Sect, Stupid Questions
- Chapter 84 - The Obsidian Sect
- Chapter 83 - Larix Vailsafe
- Chapter 82 - Aerial ‘Combat’
- Chapter 81 - Fighting Fancy
- Chapter 80 - Being Reckless
- Chapter 79 - The will and the crow
- Chapter 78 - The Truth, and consequences for hiding it.
- Chapter 77 - The Witch’s Reappearance
- Chapter 76 - Video of Lazhen
- Chapter 75 - The Table
- Chapter 74 - Siege of Lazhen, part six
- Chapter 73 - Siege of Lazhen, part five
- Chapter 72 - Siege of Lazhen, Part Four
- Chapter 71 - Siege of Lazhen, Part Three
- Chapter 70 - Siege of Lazhen, part two
- Chapter 69 - The Siege of Lazhen, part one
- Chapter 68 - THE THIRD STEP
- Chapter 67 - Zedart and Valee
- Chapter 66 - What are adventurers?
- Chapter 65 - Amperdons!
- Chapter 64 - Plotting doom
- Chapter 63 - Sara and Barry part 2
- Chapter 62 - Sara and Barry part 1
- Chapter 61 - Bit of a scrap
- Chapter 60 - Getting up to speed
- Chapter 59 - The Tyrants’ Secretary
- Chapter 58 - S+ Achievement Rewards
- Chapter 57 - Third Trial, an Adventurer's duel
- Chapter 56 - Third Trial, going mad
- Chapter 55 - Are we the baddies?
- Chapter 54 - Third Trial, Strategist Itrac
- Chapter 53 - Third Trial, Momentum
- Chapter 52 - Third Trial, schemed
- Chapter 51 - General Grivkas
- Chapter 50 - Dragonslayers vs Tyrants, part 3
- Chapter 49 - Dragonslayers vs Tyrants part 2
- Chapter 48 - Dragonslayers vs Tyrants part 1
- Chapter 47 - Chieftain and Shadow
- Chapter 46 - Trial Adaptations
- Chapter 45 - Double Humiliation
- Chapter 44 - Complacency
- Chapter 43 - Bullipede, round two
- Chapter 42 - Indigo
- Chapter 41 - Latarro
- Chapter 40 - Family
- Chapter 39 - Insurance
- Chapter 38 - Pinkie the dragonslayer
- Chapter 37 - Artigan's bounty
- Chapter 36 - Consolidation and the Leafstalkers
- Chapter 35 - Urban combat simming and stoning
- Chapter 34 - Consequences, yelling and d***s
- Chapter 33 - The bullipede, round one
- Chapter 32 - Conviction
- Chapter 31 - Quasi-Legendary Artifact
- Chapter 30 - The multiversal performance
- Chapter 29 - At eye to eye with a Tyrant
- Chapter 28 - But you have heard of him
- Chapter 27 - The worst hostage taker
- Chapter 26 - The Second Step
- Chapter 25 - Skill discussion with the crew
- Chapter 24 - After-action report
- Chapter 23 - Seffara the Sapphire
- Chapter 22 - The Dawn of Artigan
- Chapter 21 - Realm 2 rewards and respite
- Interlude - Gamielle saves the nosy
- Chapter 20 - Strategist and General
- Chapter 19 - Strategist Avale
- Chapter 18 - A dark angel with a smoking gun
- Chapter 17 - The budding monster in the Second Trial
- Chapter 16 - Ryan vs the Outpost team
- Chapter 15 - Cleaning up the trash
- Chapter 14 - Barry the ex-[Berserker]
- Chapter 13 - Return to Earth
- Chapter 12 - The ?????
- Chapter 11 - Ryan vs Zedart
- Chapter 10 - The Instant Trial?
- Chapter 9 - The Realm
- Chapter 8 - Gamielle's gambit
- Chapter 7 - Zedart and Gamielle
- Chapter 6 - The First Step
- Chapter 5 - The Manager round 2
- Chapter 4 - The Skeleton Lord
- Chapter 3 - Ryan the NPC
- Chapter 2 - The First Trial
- Chapter 1 - Ryan vs the Manager